Tuesday, 25 August 2009

“Up here we call it the ‘wha’s like us’ mentality”.

I do promise to leave the Megrahi – MacAskill affair alone for a while – soon – but a post from Liam Murray tickled my fancy. Apart from subjecting the defining characteristics of ‘compassion’ to closer scrutiny, Murray takes the SNP minister to task for asserting Scotland’s ‘moral superiority.

“Up here we call it the ‘wha’s like us’ mentality”


“You have to wonder what characteristics Mr MacAskill would ascribe to our English neighbours”, Murray ponders, “it’s probably best not to ask”.

20 comments:

FBI Bob said...

Erm, can you quote the part of Mackaskill's statement that claimed 'moral superiority' or are you simply lying?

British Czar said...

But to be fair, MacKaskill didn't claim any moral superiority, he simply stated that the Scottish Legal system has compassion as a very material element and that compassion features in Scottish Society.

I've found the criticism of this issue from those on the right and unionists in particular disappointing.

They've shown themselves up and the SNP may well benefit from such anti-scottish nonsense.

Chekov said...

Liam Murray asserts that MacAskill's statement implies moral superiority. It's very simple, he didn't merely laud qualities of a legal system, he lauded the qualities of 'a people'. It is not 'anti-Scottish' to be sceptical of such rhetoric. Many Scots (not nats) are thoroughly embarrassed by this type of thinking. If, however, rhetoric about 'peoples' and their innate qualities are the stuff of your politics, then you're going to find this type of nationalist guff entirely normal.

FBI Bob said...

Oh I see, someone else asserted it but you felt compelled to include that in a neutral way, that's a bit lame isn't it.

"he lauded the qualities of 'a people"

Isn't a nation's laws directly linked to it's people?

Are you suggesting that Uk law does not reflect the values of the british public?

You've got some very confused thinking going on here and it seems tinged by a general anti-nationalist view.

"It is not 'anti-Scottish' to be sceptical of such rhetoric"

I was referring to the various posts on The Times, The telegraph, The Scotsman where various posters attacked Scotland itself.

Is such public racism acceptable when it's related to a nationalist decision?

Chekov said...

You seem to have got a little confused Mr Sock Puppet. You were using the handle 'British Czar' when you made the 'anti-Scottish' comment. I have no doubt which posts you are referring to on various newspapers. I don't trawl through readers' comments, finding it a more profitable use of my time to concentrate on articles. Of course, neither is it a profitable use of my time to answer sock puppets.

FBI Bob said...

You don't really like debate do you.

Why do unionist conservatives have such a need to stifle alternative voices. What are you all so afraid of?

LMA said...

FBI Bob,

Is that you 'Wardog'?

Chekov said...

Sock puppetry isn't debate. It's unacceptable on almost any blog, whether CU or not.

Alec said...

>> Erm, can you quote the part of Mackaskill's statement that claimed 'moral superiority' or are you simply lying?

From:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/This-Week/Speeches/Safer-and-stronger/lockerbiedecision

>> In Scotland, we are a people who pride ourselves on our humanity. It is viewed as a defining characteristic of Scotland and the Scottish people. The perpetration of an atrocity and outrage cannot and should not be a basis for losing sight of who we are, the values we seek to uphold, and the faith and beliefs by which we seek to live.

Now run along and play. There's traffic outside.

Wha' like us? None, thank f*ck.

Liam Murray said...

Sorry I'm late to this.

The 'moral superiority' tag came from the quote from James Bowman - it was just an assertion but a reasonably sound one and one that nothing here successfully rebutts.

One of the general points I was making was MacAskill's claim that we are a people renowned for our humanity was as spurious as the claims to American exceptionalism that we Scots so often ridicule.

Gary said...

Chekov why do idiots/cyber nats insist on using different pseudonyms everytime they post? Is it to pretend that there are more people than actually exist that share their pathetic thoughts?? It reeks of inferiority complex but hey that's just an opinion. :-)

Hernandez said...

I challenge anyone to come over to Sauchiehall Street in Glasgow on a Saturday night and point out some Scottish 'compassion'.

FBI Bob said...

"nothing here successfully rebutts."

Guilty until proven innocent, nice unionist logic there.

"renowned for our humanity "

Again, your being spurious, where did MacKaskill say the word "renowned"?




These accusations tell us more about your cringe than anything else.

FBI Bob said...

Alec

"In Scotland, we are a people who pride ourselves on our humanity. It is viewed as a defining characteristic of Scotland and the Scottish people. The perpetration of an atrocity and outrage cannot and should not be a basis for losing sight of who we are, the values we seek to uphold, and the faith and beliefs by which we seek to live."

Well done for proving my point Alec

FBI Bob said...

"Sock puppetry isn't debate"

You seem incapable of debating and instead seek to rubbish others alternative views, is your blog a 'closed shop' for unionism.

How about actually answering my questions of your assumption?

Where is your evidence?

FBI Bob said...

"statement implies moral superiority"

Oh I see now, it IMPLIES.....

Debate over, put away your parochial cringe, it' brings shame on you.

What is apparent is just how limited unionism's view of the world really is.

So desperate to attack any form of self determination are they that the blinkers come done and they attack a decision that has been lauded internationally for being "enlightened' & 'humane"


Unionism 0
Compassion 1

FBI Bob said...

LMA

This is 'FBI Bob', should have gone to spec savers.

FBI Bob said...

Gary

"inferiority complex"

Just an opinion ;-)

FBI Bob said...

British Czar

Unionism as a staging post has shot itself in the foot over this one and dare I say, revealed it's true right wing leanings to many in Scotland.

Many Labour & Liberal supporters are choking in their porridge at the antics of their leaders whilst the inter-faith community have lauded it, a survey of solicitors have backed it and the following support it:

Labour
Malcolm Chisholm MSP - made his point clear in the chamber.
Lord George Foulkes - listened attentively, nodded, and didn't make comments; not his usual behaviour towards the Scottish Government (his favourite people, really).
Henry McLeish - already stated his position.
John Prescott - made it clear earlier.
Cathy Jamieson MSP - never came forward to ask a question in spite of having been in the position herself.
Frank Doran MP - one-time lawyer, left wing (in current Labour terms), used to run his legal practice in Whitfield in Dundee (not hunting the big money cases, then).
Gavin Strang MP - his politics point to compassion rather than vengeance.
Bill Butler MSP, Marlyn Glenn MSP, Rhoda Grant MSP, Frank McAveety MSP, Cathy Peattie MSP, adn Elaine Smith MSP - their consciences will be hurting.

Lib Dem
John Farquhar Munro MSP - already declared
Mike Rumbles MSP - I think he said so on Radio Scotland?
Hugh O'Donnell MSP - seems inclined to mercy.
Ming Campbell MP - has already said so.
Lord David Steel - has already said so.
Lord David Owen - has already said so.
Charles Kennedy MP - he's a liberal as well as a Lib Dem (they don't always go together), surely he backs MacAskill?
Iain Smith MSP - I just think so.
Jamie Stone MSP - it may seem cheesy, but I think Jamie Stone is strong and mature enough to not go blue and get smoked ...

Conservatives
Ted Brocklebank MSP - he seems to be to be a compassionate and libertarian kind of guy.
Derek Brownlee MSP - he's sensible enough.
Alex Johnstone MSP - a fair-minded chiel.
Struan Stevenson MEP - surely he would?
Jamie McGrigor MSP - he's a chap who looks on others with a kindly eye.
John Scott MSP - the kind of guy who would agree but wouldn't like to upset his party colleagues either. I think he'd be compassionate.

Liam Murray said...

FBI Bob,

The dictionary definition of 'renown' is:

"The quality if being widely known and acclaimed"

The Justice Minister said:

"It is viewed as a defining characteristic of Scotland and the Scottish people"

When he says 'It is viewed' who was he speaking about? I'd suggest it was a general view he was referring to and if so his meaning is indistinguishable from the word renown.

That you seek to advance your case on little more than semantic squabbles is reassuring...